Clarence House has advised us all that Prince William is marrying Kate Middleton on Friday 29th April 2011 and it has been decreed that this will be a Bank Holiday. Irrespective of your feelings towards The Royals, this will probably mean you get an extra day’s holiday so it can’t be bad, can it?
Before you buy the champagne and hang up the bunting, are you so sure that you are going to get paid for this day off? Assuming you are going to simply because it’s a Public Holiday is not such a sound bet as you might have thought.
If you were an employer, how would you feel about losing a day’s productivity and having to pay your staff for sitting at home watching the telly with a box of Kleenex in front of them? My guess is that the first thing you would say is ‘why the hell didn’t they get married on a Saturday like everyone else?’.
Well, they aren’t. So, what does that mean? Surprisingly, it turns out to be quite a complicated question.
The starting point is, as always, your contract of employment. Look at the section that covers ‘Bank Holidays’ – what does it say about them?
There are four obvious possibilities.
The contract says you are entitled to paid Bank Holidays and they are specifically mentioned
If your contract says that you are entitled to Bank Holidays and lists them – e.g. Good Friday, Easter Monday, Christmas Day, New Year’s Day etc, then obviously there will be no mention of the Royal Wedding. Since it is not covered, you are not automatically entitled to a day’s pay.
Whether you work or whether you get paid if you don’t is entirely at the discretion of your employer. Working on the day of the Royal Wedding will only result in normal pay – you won’t be paid at a plus-rate for overtime nor will you get a day off in lieu.
Not coming in to work will constitute absenteeism and employers will naturally be suspicious of any employee claiming to be ‘not feeling well’ on the day of the Royal Wedding.
The contract says you are entitled to paid Bank Holidays and they are not specifically mentioned
If your contract just says that you get Bank Holidays off then that means any and all Bank Holidays even if the number is increased (or decreased, too). Thus you are entitled to a day’s paid holiday and there is nothing the employer can do to stop you taking it.
Of course, if you are needed, they may well offer you an incentive (overtime, a day off in lieu) but they are not obliged to nor are you obliged to accept. It’s just a case of supply and demand.
Your contract says that Bank Holidays are treated like any other working day
If your contract says that Bank Holidays are ordinary working days then it is quite clear – you have absolutely no entitlement. If your company says you must work, then that is what you must do.
Your company is closing for the day
If your company shuts on a normal working day you are in a ‘lay off’ situation. Legally there is no work for you to do (even if there is, really) and the company must pay you at the normal rate for that day although not for overtime or bonuses unless these are guaranteed.
These are all ‘worst case’ type scenarios – i.e. where the employer and employee are in potential conflict over what the entitlement is. In practice, your employer should be posting a memo to all staff stating the company’s position and there is no excuse for them not advising you of this in good time. So, if you aren’t sure of what the score is, ask your boss direct or go to your workers’ representative for clarification.
No doubt there is a good reason for choosing a Friday however it would seem that the Royal Family are, yet again, so far out of touch that they cannot conceive of the chaos that their decision will be causing such as the:
- National loss of productivity
- Lost wages as companies have to pay for absent staff (particularly badly affected are small businesses)
- Number of disciplinary actions brought against employees who skived off on the day
It won’t be joyous news for everyone – maybe it’s time someone told the Royals that.
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Please advise what happens if your contract allows for 8 bank holidays, which is I believe the ‘standard’ number, but these are not named specifically. Does that make a 9th unexpected Bank Holiday a normal working day, which my wife’s employer is implying or can a case be argued that the addition of a further, ‘special, one-off’ Bank Holiday should be treated in the spirit intended.
Hi Tim
From what you say, your wife appears to have no specific entitlement to paid time off for the Royal Wedding and it should be just another working day for her.
If the contract states a specific number of Bank Holiday days for which she will be paid then that is all she is allowed to take although there might not be any contractual reason why she could not decide to take the Royal Wedding Bank Holiday off and work another Bank Holiday instead. That might be an angle to take. If she did that and her employer closes on the Bank Holiday she proposed to work in lieu then that is a lock-out for which she should be paid!
It’s only a thought.
If the contract lists the Bank Holidays then she has absolutely no comeback whatsoever.
There is no ‘spirit’ to any of this – the whole thing is a badly thought through mess originated by people who don’t have to work for a living!
You need to read her contract through very carefully and seek legal help before doing anything rash.
Please remember that we are not qualified to offer legal advice and that this is merely an opinion offered without sight of the relevant documentation.
where I work the shop floor workers are on holiday on the day of the royal wedding as it falls under the easter holiday period.
However on the same site the office staff employed by the company are not usually off for a full week at easter but will be on holiday on the day of the royal wedding so in effect are getting 1 more day holiday than their usual entitlement.
Are the company obliged to offer the factory workers something to redress the balance of holidays ?
Hi
No employer’s obliged to do anything other than what it says in the contract of employment with an individual worker (unless, of course, they close the office/factory and prevent the worker from carrying out their job).
Redress is irrelevant – that’s political rather than legal and up to the company.
If the period is being classed as a Bank Holiday by the company anyway, it’s hard to see why an employer should give anyone an extra day’s holiday because a Bank Holiday has duplicated itself.
Always seek legal advice before you act.
Hi i have an annual leave entitlement of 28 days plus bank holidays. But looking at my employee contract it states that i am entitled to 28 days annual leave and no mention what so ever of bank holidays! I am asking this because i am not sure if i will be entitled to the extra day or not.
Your contract is king but it obviously all depends on whether your company closes on the day. If it does, there is no problem – it’s a lock-out.
Whoever drew up your contract deserves the sack although why on Earth did you sign it?
As always, show all your documentation to a legal advisor or a union rep before acting.
Hi there
My holiday entitlement is 28 days a year including bank holidays.I know i will not get paid for the extra bank holiday this year,but what i would like to know is if my employer gives me the chance to take the day unpaid or a day from my holiday entitlement,does my employer have to give me the option to work that day aswell as he is not working and will be shutting the company for the day so it is not my fault i can not work.
Fred
It sounds a bit like you want your cake and eat it, too. If your company is giving you the choice of working or not working then there is no obligation on you to give up a day of your holiday and then not get paid further down the line. Ultimately it comes down to the fact that no-one is stopping you from having your 28 days paid leave which is all that your employer is obliged to give you – no more, no less.
If that’s the case then it seems clear to me but you must get proper advice and present your contract etc to someone before acting on this.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
hi how do i stand regarding the extra bank holiday for the royal wedding. i dont have a contract of employment.
It is a legal requirement that every employer issue every employee with a contract of employment. You should speak to your employer about this and, if you get no joy, take immediate legal advice.
My contract says I am entitled to 29 holidays, including bank & public holidays in the holiday year. Am I entitled to take the royal wedding day as a extra paid bank holiday or will I have to take it as one of my 29 days holidays
You’ve answered your own question. Your contract says you are entitled to 29 days including Bank and Public Holidays so that’s what you will get. Why should your employer give you more? Not only that, because of the wording, it would seem like your employer can insist you take the wedding day off as part of your leave.
Get someone to read your contract’s small print.
Hi,
Advice if you have time please.
I am under contract for 28 days holiday, no mention of Public/Bank Holidays.
I work for a agency and am contracted out to another business to work for them, this other business is closing for the 29th but the agency is not. Therefor am i required to use a days holiday for a public holiday or would said agency have to offer another days leave?
I have already requested alternative assignment for the 29th as i am prepered to work to save my days holiday but i doubt this will happen.
Not bothered about the wedding, just don’t like the idea of losing a day of MY holiday to watch the missus watching the rich ones who don’t have to work!
hope you can help,
thank you.
Beanie
Hello Beanie
Now that is a good one!
I am going to assume that you work for an employment agency (and not an employment business) and that the agency actually pays your wages (having invoiced this other business). That’s almost certainly the case.
The number of days holiday is a red herring since you are not asking to take the day off.
As far as I can work out, you will be in a lock-out situation. While the agency could ask you to work in a similar job in a similar location for the day, if your normal place of work is closed and the agency cannot find you alternative work, they should pay you. Not that you care about it, but I would also guess that the agency could quite cheerfully invoice the business for closing but that’s going to depend on the wording of their contract with the business.
Tell them you require payment for your normal working day or you’ll seek legal advice (never threaten as that is an assault) and see what they do.
When it comes down to it, you’ve a badly-worded contract which is their fault for issuing.
Nice to hear that there’s someone else out there that doesn’t subscribe to the view that there’s ‘nothing worse than warm champagne’.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
I work part time over 4 days (Mon-Thursday). My holiday entitlement is inclusive of bank holidays and an allowance is made to pro-rata leave (against a full time equivalent including BHol allowance).
A memo has come round to say:
Across the NHS Friday, 29th April 2011 will be regarded as a public holiday so staff who wish to can join in the celebrations.
For those members of staff not required to work on this day, it will be regarded as a day’s paid leave (in addition to your normal annual leave entitlement). Part time staff will be entitled to the hours that they work on a Firday normally
For those that are required to work this day, an alternative day’s paid leave will be granted. (Pay will be at flat rate in line with other NHS organisations in the locality).
my question is: Should staff who do not work on a friday have an allocation of leave?
Hello Claire
Ah, the NHS and the wedding. I guess there won’t be a whip-round in your hospital for the big day.
Yes, it’s a mess, isn’t it?
When it comes down to it, if you don’t work the day, why should you have an extra day off? That’s the attitude that is being taken or so it seems.
I agree that your ‘pro-rata’ comment muddies the water a bit but arguing the pro-rata case for one extra day is going to come across as a bit petty, I’m afraid.
As I keep saying, the whole thing has not been thought through, as is born out by the number of hits this page receives.
My contract states that I am entitled to 21 working days + customary/public holidays which at present are an additional days (29 total).
Also states you are entitled customary/public holidays with pay.
Seem simple but does this entitle me to have the royal wedding day off?
This is one we’ve already answered, Duncan!
If your contract says you get paid Public Holidays, you get paid Public Holidays – no matter how many (or few) there might be.
could you tell me where i stand about the extra bank holiday
my contract says i get 28 days in the complete holiday year
but this is inclusive of public holidays new years day and january 2nd
chrismas day and boxing day
Mark, we’ve answered this already. Your contract says you get 28 days so you get … 28 days.
I am currently working in a guest house and have no contract. I have been told I am not allowed to take any holiday apparently I have to work there a year before I can take ANY, so I have to work everyday apart from weekends for the whole year? and as a mum of 3 I find this unfair. I dont want to give up my job but I feel I am being treated unfairly as does my husband but we need the job! so on min wage and no extra for public or bank hols is this right?…help!!
Hello Jo
You need some proper legal advice.
It is an obligation on ANY employer to provide its employees with a written employment contract. This is not an option nor is there any defence against it. You have to have one.
You are also legally entitled to start accruing a holiday from the time you start work http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Timeoffandholidays/DG_10029788
I can’t tell you to do this but you might like to make your employer an ‘offer they can’t refuse’ (to coin a phrase).
When it comes down to it, you need some decent legal advice – find a legal aid solicitor and fast. I would also suggest you get the refusal to give you holiday put into writing.
Let us know how you get on. We wish you very good luck with it.
Thanks Clive, unfortunately I have a boss who does not “give a monkeys” to put it mildly and would sack me as I have been told if I take the public holiday off, as there are people queuing for my job! hmmm! Thankyou for your advice I shall let you know if I still have a job when I mention the word ‘contract’…Jo
Hello Jo
Yes, I can believe that (about the monkeys etc). However they are not above the law and (as an ex-boss myself), they would do well not to fall foul of it. The issue of contracts and holiday is pretty ‘black and white’ – there are no ‘grey areas’.
Sacking someone without good reason is also a no-no. They have to give you reasons and notice and so forth. If they try to force you out by making life miserable – tell them to look up the phrase ‘penalties for constructive dismissal’.
I’m going to do a blog about how ignorance is no defence soon – perhaps your boss should read it!!!
I really do wish you all the best.
Hi,
Hope you can help. My company is closing for the day of the Royal Wedding so there is no work. We had a memo with our pay slips this week saying we have two options: to use up a day of our holiday allowance or take the day off unpaid.
Is this allowed? As there is no chance of earning on the day, do they not have to offer their employees a day off in lieu/ standard wages? Not really sure what my rights are here; I suppose there’s no way of really reversing my employers decision. Any help you could offer would be very much appreciated.
Hi Maggie
You should have read the original post – it’s answered there. Look for the phrase ‘lock-out’.
Your employer can’t do what you’ve described – sign nothing and agree to nothing.
Good luck.
Hi Clive
I work for a contract cleaning company at a university which is closed for the Royal Wedding. However we have all been told by word of mouth to take a days paid leave from our contracted holiday entitlement or take a days unpaid leave.
My contract states that I have 5.6 weeks paid leave entitlement “which is inclusive of bank holidays”.
Any advice you could offer would be very much appreciated.
Hello Wilf
The contract your employer has with the university (and the university’s action to close) is irrelevant (unless you were a university employee). The employment contract you have is with your employer is all that matters – your holiday period is fixed.
I did actually mention this in the blog (I wish people would read things!).
As always, don’t act on what I say – get someone to check through the contract before you commit to something you might otherwise regret.
Good luck.
Hi.
My Dad works shift work (12 hours) and if his shift falls on a bank holiday he has to work but is paid time and a half overtime for the 12 hours plus 8 hours pay. He had a memo today saying that the 29th April 2011 will be a “days holiday (But not a bank holiday)” (Can he even call it that?!) This means that the workers not on shift will be paid for 8 hours even though they won’t be working but the workers on shift will have to work their full 12 hours and only get an additional 8 hours pay where on a normal bank holiday would be paid time and a half for the 12 hours plus the additional 8 hours. I believe that the 8 hours is put in place because the office staff, who work 8 hours a day, have bank holidays off on full pay. Very confusing!!
Any help would be much appreciated!!
Hello Hayley
They can call it what they like but it’s officially a Bank Holiday. What others have or don’t have or do or don’t do is utterly irrelevant (even if it seems grossly unfair) – it’s all to do with what your Dad’s contract says (I keep saying that).
Sounds like an awful mess (like a lot of the country is experiencing).
If your in doubt get a legal person to check over the wording of your Dad’s contract and tell him not to sign any waiver (I’m not sure that would stick even if he did but it’s best not to take chances).
Good luck
I am paid on a daily rate by an agency and the office will be closed on the Royal Wedding Day. I have only been there for two weeks. Will I get paid for the wedding and Easter?
Pam, the answer is in the blog – how many times must I say it? I suggest you read your contract more thoroughly than you’ve read this!!!
ive have just been told by work that they are not recognising the day as a bank holiday and we wont be entitled to a day off work. my contract says i get my holiday allocation plus all statutory holidays which i am asuming means bank holiday if so am i right in thinking that i am entitled to this extra bank holiday
It is not up to your company to ‘recognise’ or ‘not recognise’ it as a Bank Holiday – it IS a Bank Holiday.
Assume nothing – read your contract and my blog. The answer to your question is there.
The contractual wording i have is 28 days holiday excluding statutory days….what does this technically mean? My employer allows me to take the usual Bank Holidays without eating into my 28 days, but the contract only mentions the above regarding holiday and i am unsure of the stance for the Royal Wedding. Can you advise?
It sounds very vague and woolly (a typical by-product of this Royalist/elitist claptrap). There is a question of both usage and precise interpretation. I’m not a legal beagle, just someone who’s been on the other side of the fence.
Someone more versed in employment law needs to read over your contract and also advise on the implications of usage – i.e. what is normal and a reasonable interpretation. Fairness has nothing to do with this so don’t let that muddle your thinking.
My opinion (from what you’ve said) is that you are entitled to the day as paid leave but …
I feel very sorry for everyone caught up in this – workers and employers.
Good luck
hello. looking for some help. i know in a workplace u MUST have a contract if not seek legal advice..i’am looking into that. if i do not have a contract tho am i entitled to royal wedding public holiday in scotland??
I’ve answered this one – it’s in the above posts. Good luck with your legal advice.
Hi, I hope you can clear this up for me. You have mentioned that if your contract states a set number of days then you don’t get the bank holiday.
Also if your contract lists the bank holidays then you don’t get.
My problem is is that my holiday entitlement is not in my contract but it the employee handbook which the contract refers to.
It also states 5.6 weeks holiday, and this is inclusive of cistomary bank holiday. It also lists the holidays.
I think it is a bit woolly but my boss is adamant we are working that day. Due to me being the office manager and my boss already taking the day as a holiday I am now being refused the day as a holiday.
Is there anything I can do?
Thanks for any help.
If your contract refers to the employee handbook then it will be deemed to form part of the contract. There is also the question of usage so, even if it doesn’t explicitly refer to it, if the employee handbook has been the ‘way of life’ then, in the absence of anything to contradict the notion, one might reasonably (that word is key) assume that it was part of the contract.
What your boss does or doesn’t do is utterly irrelevant. As I keep saying, fairness is not an issue here.
If your handbook says INCLUSIVE of bank holidays and then goes on to list them then I don’t see that you have a leg to stand on – sorry.
You would have to show that your handbook is not connected to your contract AND that you have never accepted its existence or benefitted from its contents. From what you say, that’s not a cause I would personally like to back.
hi,hoping you can help us,my husband has worked for his employer for 4 years has never signed a contract or has been offered one,has always had bank holidays off with pay,now his employer is saying it is not an official bank holiday,if you could help us with this would be appreciated thank you.
Hello. I’ve answered every part of this in the above postings. If you read them you’ll see. Good luck.
hi clive,i have read the postings but there is nothing on there about not having no contract?
Hello Debbie
How can I say this? I hope you read your paperwork through more carefully than you’ve read the postings. I quote:
“It is a legal requirement that every employer issue every employee with a contract of employment. You should speak to your employer about this and, if you get no joy, take immediate legal advice.”
I have answered this so read the postings through again – slower this time!
I do wish you good luck though.
hi i get 2 weeks holidays plus all the bank public holidays am i entitled to the day off on the royal wedding bank holiday have been told its up to my boss if i get it or not
Hello Steve. I have answered this (over and over again!). You’ve also got the answer in your own message. I quote: “… plus all the bank public holidays …”. I really couldn’t put it any clearer than you have. Check the wording of your contract though.
i only usually work mon tues wed so will i still be entitled to the bank holiday for the royal wedding? and how will i get it paid or owed a day in leau?
Cath, the answer’s in the blog.
Hi, my employers are closing on the royal wedding day but said they will not be paying us, is this allowed?
Hello Martin
Answer is very clearly in the post – just read it through.
Thanks, so just to clear it up, if the company is closing they have to pay you as normal?
Hi Martin
If you’re ‘locked out’ then they have to pay you. Do get someone to check the wording of your employment contract before you go acting on it, though. It could (just) be that there is something in the text which might undermine this.
Basically, it’s your job to get your carcass to work – it’s their job to give you work to do (or pay you to sit and wait). Remember, you do not have a legal right to go into your company’s premises so, theoretically, they could say, “Martin, we don’t want you here for a few days – sit at home and wait.” As long as you then sit at home (and don’t go off on holiday), they have to pay you. If you turned up at work in that time, they’d be perfectly within their rights to turn you away.
Hi, we’ve just been told today that the company is open, and if you want the day off it’s a days hol, or no pay. We’ve just assumed we would be closed, as we are for all other public holidays. All I would like to know is would this count as reasonable notice, as we’ve booked a week away, and just been told today, with a letter being sent out today also.
I think the error lies with you and your assumption, Chris. I admit that I feel very sorry for the number of businesses losing out because of this latest demonstration of Royal unawareness.
If your contract says you are entitled to the day off, you should get the day off. If it does not then you have to work it (if your employer chooses to ask you to) or face disciplinary action. Unless your employer is trying to implement a change to your contracted hours, personally I don’t see you have a case.
I hate to say it, but you really should have checked this out before booking a holiday.
hi there, just a quick clarification if possible,
i’m on a 28 days contract to which i know i have no entitlement to the 29th as a holiday and therefore should be working, i have been informed that i may be told not to come into work and if this is the case they have said that i will not be paid for it,
does this mean if they say don’t come in that they are oblidged to pay me for the day?
Hi Mike
People keep asking me the same question over and over again. Read the bit about lock-outs.
Will Prince William be entitled to a day off in lieu, or will he simply get paid for the Bank Holiday ? It’s getting mighty confusing, he may need to check his contract of employment.
Hi Paul
Now that is a very good point. In my humblest of opinions, he’s got a very different form of contract to worry about right now.
Hi , hope I don’t sound stupid but can you please help me out . I get 28 days holiday and I have to work all 8 bank holidays and I get paid double time for doing so will I be getting double time for working this royal wedding
Thanks
Robert
Hello Robert
Doesn’t sound stupid to me however it’s all going to depend on what your employment contract says. If it says you get paid double time for working Bank Holidays, this is a Bank Holiday therefore you should get paid double time. It’s probably a moot point whether your boss is obliged to open your place of work on the day, though. If not, would you be paid double time? However that doesn’t sound like it’s the issue.
Read your contract VERY carefully before grumping about only being paid normal time (if that should happen).
Good luck.
Hi Clive,
My daughter has started work just over a month ago (Apprenticeship Health and Social Care) and does not yet have a contract. Is there a time period by when when the employer must issue a contract or no time scale at all?
She has also just been told she is not working this Friday/Monday easter bank hols and will not be paid, so she has booked it as paid annual hols.
Many Thanks.
Hello Terry
She has to have a contract issued within 2 months of starting – http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/EmploymentContractsAndConditions/DG_10027905
This is the best site I know for ‘horse’s mouth’ stuff.
Whether or not she is paid for Bank Holidays depends on her agreement with her employer but there is no obligation for an employer to pay. Given how hard times are, I can’t blame an employer for not wanting to give your daughter paid leave so soon after starting.
I wish her all the best with her apprenticeship. If she has any comments about her course (e.g. what it’s like etc), this is the site to make them on.
Thank you for the valuable info Clive, it was very helpful as are all the other posts!
Thanks for your time, and we will post in the future with reference to her apprenticship.
Thanks Terry, your comments have actually made my day. I really wish her all the best and confess I’m glad to be out of the rat race.
Thank you for the valuable info Clive, it was very helpful as are all the other posts!
Thanks for your time, and we will post in the future with reference to her apprenticeship.
I have worked for a company for 12 years, I am entitled to 30 days holidays + 8 bank holidays. I don’t really care if he gives me an extra holiday or not, why should the employers loose out. My question is, I have no contract, and I know it is a legal requirement, but what do I gain by asking him to draw one up for me? Also if he doesn’t draw one up for me, what should I do? It’s a good job and would want to wreck it by taking legal action.
look forward to your response
This is really beyond the scope of this blog, Steve (although it’s a good idea for another one).
My answer is to just stop and think about what you’ve written. Why should you want a written contract? Why would anyone want to get anything in writing?
I note your comments about not wishing to stir up trouble. I have a suggestion. There is nothing wrong with you drafting up a contract for him to then copy and paste onto his own letterhead. Just keep it simple and set out the conditions that you already have. There are plenty of guides about how to draw one up on the internet.
As a small business we employ 8 lads on a 5-day week. Their contract states they are entitled to 20 days + 8 Bank Holidays paid leave per year. We will be open for them to work on Friday but have said if they wish to they can take the day unpaid or out of their holiday entitlement. Is this correct?
If we had known through the media that we did not have to allow them the time off we would not have done so. None of them will be watching the wedding. Some are going down the pub, others fishing etc.
We are loosing a days production and for what? Another Royal Wedding that we hope will be happy ever after, but I doubt it.
Hello Steele
Yes, it’s people like you that I feel sorriest for. We used to run a small business and it was always, “ME, ME, ME” with the staff. The government changes the rules and we picked up the tabs. Anyway, enough of my politics.
It’s a bit late now to tell them they have to work although if I recall correctly, you only have to give a day’s notice if you want to change one day. That said, you will probably create some bad blood in doing so. Your assessment of the situation sounds perfectly correct to me – a day from their holiday or an unpaid day.
Have you read our blog about how much the wedding’s costing small businesses? It won’t make you any happier, I fear.
As an afterthought, can you offer anything by way of an incentive to get them back in? Maybe finish a bit early, have fish and chips and a can of alcohol-free at lunchtime? I don’t know – something along those lines.
ive only been working 10 wks and only doing 16 hours a week over 5 days there is no written contract, should i get paid for bank holidays and the royal wedding
thanks clint
Hello Clint
If you read the posting, you’ll see the answer.
thanks Clive should be fun at work tomorrow, hope you enjoy the wedding unless of course your working,
My pleasure, Clint.
As to the ‘big day’, I’ll be doing my odd anti-establishmental posting, I expect. The wedding holds nothing interesting in store for me. I just see waste, pointless expense, and a terrible abuse of privilege. By all means let them have their beanfeast but it shouldn’t be at the expense of hard-pressed employers.
… but that, of course, is just my take.
: – )
Hi All,
I’ve been reading your posts and am wondering if anyone can help me. I wor a three day week tues, wed & thurs by law Iam ebtitled to 5.3 x 3 days per year = 16.8 days (17 days holiday per year). Our contracts of employment states all bank holidays per year so we know that when we are given the extra say this friday for wedding we are not entitled to automatic pay for that day. However, he has stated that full time employees will ge the day off paid, by law am I entitled to an extra days holiday for this year as he has given everyone else the paid extra day off.
Urgent reply needed. I know I’m being greedy by wanting extra day but the others are being paid the extra dat and even though I don’t work a friday surely he has to give me the same.
Hello Claire
You’ve not read the blog through!!!
As I keep saying, this whole thing has got nothing to do with fairness. I don’t know how many times I have to say that.
If you don’t normally work the day, why should you get an extra day’s leave? How would you feel if you were the one paying the wages bill? Would you be happy to fork out for someone to sit at home and watch the telly when they wouldn’t even be working under normal circumstances?
I don’t mean to upset but I really suggest you read this posting and the comments through carefully.
Good luck.
Yes I totally understand that and am not saying it’s not fair on employers because it is unfair. What I’m getting at is that everyone is entitled to 5.6 weeks holiday per year full or part time, our contract of employment states all bankh holidays etc so he is within his rights not to pay us for friday at all to ask us to take out of our holidays or take it unpaid and even say we have to work. What I’m getting at is the fact that my colleagues now are getting twent none days paid thous getting 5.8 weeks per year whilst me being part time am still only getting 5.6 weeks per year surely I shuld get the same if everyone else is getting paid don’t forget part time workes should nt be treated unfairly.
Hello Claire
What your colleagues get or don’t get would seem highly irrelevant (although not to you, I’m sure of that). The only thing that is relevant is what your contract of employment says. If it doesn’t give you a clear right to something then the whole thing becomes purely discretionary on the part of your employer.
Parity does not come into the matter so I would strongly suggest you drop that one.
Ultimately this is a job vacancies blog and not a free legal help service so, if you are looking to go any further with your claim, you really should seek proper advice. Personally, I don’t think you have much of a case but …
Good luck.
I work in retail.
We have no choice but to work Friday, and employer not paying anything extra or day off in lieu – as per usual!
Please support the retail workers and do not shop on Friday.
This will hitthe retail companies in the till takings and prove a point – hopefully.
Doubt it though somehow.
Easter Sunday – most people coming in said” We only came in because you were the only place open!”
How sad – lovely sunny day, and all they could do was retail therapy.
Hi, my contract says “Your annual holiday entitlement is 28 working days, during a complete holiday year”. The only mention in my contract of public holidays states that “Store managers and all sales assistants are expected to cover public and bank holidays as part of their normal working week”. I will be working on Friday as I work Monday to Friday every week, I would just like to know if I am entitled to get this day back as a day in lieu as I do with other bank holidays but given that these are not mentioned in my contract I am not sure where I stand?
Thank you for your time.
Hello Andy
Well, you have to ask yourself not “Why can’t I have the day off?” but “Why should they give me the day off?”
It sounds like you’ve got a bit of a pickle there. Leaving out Bank Holidays from your contract is something that should be queried and certainly rectified for the future.
However, it could be argued that the 28 days includes Bank Holidays in which case you could take the day off (if your coverage conditions didn’t require you to be present) but you would lose a day’s pay or a day’s holiday (take your choice). The ‘normal working week’ bit would seem to further condemn you. There’s also the question of usage – you normally get a (paid) day off in lieu so it would be reasonable to expect likewise with this one.
This comes into the category of an inferred term – not the best sort of contractual element to either attack or defend. If you don’t get any joy, why not say this and offer to meet the company half-way with a half-day’s holiday sometime when you need a long weekend?
Ultimately we’re a jobs site with an interest in what goes on in the world of employment and not a (free) legal advice service. Personally I think it could be viewed either way but someone else may tell you otherwise.
Good luck and please tell us what you decide to do.
Well this is all very interesting reading…I am a carpenter (employed on PAYE). I have worked for the same company for a almost 3 years now, they employ around 25 men. Not one of us has a written contract-I was made to feel very much like I was asking for the world when I requested one upon starting with the company…a copy has never materialised despite asking several times and eventually giving up.
We do get paid for our bank holidays (the usual 8 a year), however after much confusion created purely by the directors, you will be paid for the day off, you wont be paid but will be off, you can have the day but take it from your holiday etc.
The bizarre thing is we were told today that we have no right to a paid day off for the wedding and will not be in work. However a select few of us have been asked to work to get a contract finished…the funny bit now is they are willing to pay us an enhanced rate for working the same day that they told us we had no right to be paid for having off!!
Now I do have a fairly decent knowledge of employment rights and laws and understand about contracts and bank holidays and such like so am not looking for any advice on this…just thought it a strange thing!!
Ah, a fellow Clive. Hello there!
Don’t give up with the asking for a contract – you just never know and it is an obligation on the company to provide one. I would not want to be your boss at a tribunal defending why I hadn’t issued one.
This is just a further example of the confusion the shindig’s causing.
Anyway, without a contract, no-one can definitely say what you are entitled to. There is only the question of usage (see the last reply) to fall back on and that can be flimsy at the best of times. If you normally get paid for Bank Holidays then, by rights, you should be paid for this one.
Paying you extra is not necessarily an admission of guilt. There are cases where people have a right to take the day off (unpaid) so, if the company wants them to come in, they can accept or refuse as they wish. If they do accept, the company would not be obliged to pay them extra but, if key staff weren’t interested in attending at normal rates of pay, an enhanced rate could be offered to them ‘without predjudice’.
I’ve set and operated many incentive schemes. It didn’t mean anything bar the fact that I wanted to get a job done – NOW!
You really should insist on that contract.
Good luck.
Hello David
I’m really sorry but this is going to take up too much of my time to read and digest. Ultimately this is a jobs website and not a free advice service.
Secondly you’ve copied and pasted the text from other websites which would possibly put us in breach of copyright if I uploaded it.
If you want to boil your question down to a couple of lines I’ll look at it but to do this free-of-charge would not be fair on my partners.
Best wishes
Clive
Hi Clive,
I understand what you’re saying, although the main copied text is from the Scottish Goverment website, and is freely distributable through fair-use policy. The other text is from this thread and from my employment contract.
Anyway, the jist of this is :
We’re being ‘forced’ to take the day off – and either losing a floating day, or a day’s wages.
My contract states that my holiday entitlement is ’28 days for the complete year, including public and bank holidays’
In your article, you describe the closing of the business as a ‘lay-off’ scenario, where we should be entitled to be paid, or get a day off in leui.
The Scottish Government site states ‘If you are expected to take bank and public holidays off, and you are paid for them, these days will be deducted from your 28 days.’
I can’t figure out which applies to me!
Thanks in advance,
David
Hello David
As I said in a previous reply, this is all about “why should I give you the day off?”.
Your contract says that your holiday includes public holidays. This is a public holiday therefore you take it as a day’s leave or lose a day’s pay. To my mind, your boss is being very fair about it by giving you the choice.
My article (re lay offs) refers to closing on a normal working. Your contract does not require you to work Bank Holidays therefore this is not a normal working day for you therefore you are not being laid off therefore why should your company pay you?
Yes, it is unfair having this day being dictated to you but feel free to write and complain to Clarence House. They won’t listen, of course – why should they?
Best wishes
Hi Clive,
Thanks for the clarification – much appreciated.
I had a feeling this was the case, and didn’t want to go shouting the odds until I had it clarified.
Best regards,
David
Thanks, David
It is wrong, of course, but this was all decided with no thought for the common-man. If the groom’s mother was for real, she must be spinning in her grave at all this.
For the record (everyone), I’m not anti-Royalist – I am anti elitism, name-dropping, old boys networking and so on. No-one is ‘better’ than anyone else and we’re all ‘just a …’.
I just says it as I sees it.
Best wishes.
OK, I have gotto say, even all the way in the States, we stayed up to see the Royal Wedding. We clearly remember the last one on TV vividly.
Yes, but you’re not having to pick up the tab for it, are you?
Hi
My partner works for a company hired through an agency,therefore has no permanent position within the company. and the agency pay his wages.
They have not paid him for the 29th April, even though they chose to shut the company.
Pleaseadvise if he is entitled to be paid for this …………. is this what you call a lock out situation???
Normally he has to book bank holidays off , if not he has to work them as they are included in his annual holiday entitlement ??
please help
Hi Vicky
This board is now closed now that the beanfeast for those with more money than sense is over.
The answer to your question (which is far from clear) is really in the blog, anyway.
No matter what people can say against royalty itself, Prince William and new bride Kate Middleton are undoubtedly good and worthy people – as a helicopter pilot he was involved in two mountain rescues just this week! Good for him!
Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion. It’s a pity I had to remove the sp*m link from your posting, though.
Fantastic site, found the advice I was looking for. Please keep it running.
As a thank you I would like to make a donation to the charity of your choice.
Please advise.
Kindest regards.
David.
Well, that’s very kind, David. I don’t know about my partners but I’ve always thought that the RNLI were a particularly good cause – those people have true grit.
Hello. I work in retail and have a contract naming all the bank hols. The contract says that we may be needed to work on some of them. In our shop we take it in turns to cover them. Our area mamager has given us info for boxing day. She has said that if you are contracted to work a monday, then you have to work boxing day or take off without pay. But the smaller shops who will not be open boxing day – the staff there can take as paid hols. We have sorted out between us who will be working. Is it right that the company can pay some staff paid hols and not others depending on size of shop.?
Thanks
Fran
Hi Fran
As I’ve already said, this board’s now closed but I will add that you seem to be mixing up a whole load of notions in your question. What it all comes down to is what your contract says. Only if that is not clear or is in some way ambiguous, does ‘usage’ or ‘general interpretation’ come into play. What others do or don’t do is irrelevant (legally).
Best wishes
Can you help please,I work a regular shift of 6 days on then2 legal days off(drivers hours), if a bank holiday falls on one of my legal days off am I entitled to a days pay for this day?if I worked this day then I would get paid and a day in lieu.
Mike, as I’ve already put, this blog item is now closed. If you read through the posting and also my responses, you will see your answer. However, what it means is that you need to read your contract carefully. Forget what you think is fair, what ‘should be’, what ‘others get’ or ‘what you meant’. All that ultimately matters is what your contract says.